89 thoughts on “Religion & spirituality discussion.

  1. Ah, good call.

    i am content to let both Pastor Murray’s freely available (yet not re-distributable, sadly – yet probably for good reason – those that would change it) work on (hopefully) faithful translations of the KJV would enlighten people here as to “His plan”.

    They are far more experienced and knowledgeable in the relevant “tongues” than me. Their insight and The Word have indeed changed my life over the last decade.
    I hope both can change yours too.

    Religion? They speak of His reality not religion. They appear to be bible scholars, not beggars. If i err, please let me know for my correction.

    Thank you for allowing me to broach these kinds of topics without starting a “holy war”. It is a mark of good company to me, when one can seemingly talk about anything in a respectful manner. I will not try to “convert” or “evangelize” to those that will not hear. That would be ignorant. Still, I hope i have sown faithful and fertile seed. Only God Himself can cause it to grow, and that is what we all need now more than ever, in my humble opinion. His will will be manifested, He has the victory. It is not a matter of if, but a matter of dwindling time.

    • I know the amazing, awesome, and miraculous Jesus. I don’t know the religious Jesus. I don’t know what people are talking about when they talk about the religious Jesus.

      And I know he saves people of every race, ethnic group, gender, and sexual orientation with no bias. His salvation is not limited to people that look like they come out of 50’s police procedural crime dramas.

  2. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/08 at 5:22 pm
    All societies are evil, sorrowful, inequitable; and so they will always be. So if you really want to help this world, what you will have to teach is how to live in it. – Joseph Campbell

    Thank you, Bobby, for all the work you do and have done for the ecosystem of Hawaii’s marine life. Unfortunately, the time is late for humanity to realize that “all societies are evil, sorrowful, inequitable” in which they have killed the God within. The creator’s heart exists and is alive in all living creatures including human beings. As long as we choose to see ourselves and one another as evil, sorrowful, and inequitable, and treat ourselves and one another in this way, we will live in hell – not a hell off-planet lived in some future life, but right here before our very eyes on planet earth. The only way to teach how to live in this world without evil, sorrow, or inequity, is to choose to see the divine in ourselves, one another, all creatures, waters, soils, air, everything. God may be out there or not, but it is our choice to see the God within. Opening our eyes to the miracle of the divine all around us is the only way to banish evil, sorrow, and inequity, and truly live. “Always” is a long time; Joseph Campbell was short-sighted to use the word “always”. We choose who we become as a human civilization, and we have chosen to see the worst in ourselves and one another for the entire history of humanity. We must imagine what we need to manifest – we must see ourselves, one another, and all creation as good, joyful, and equitable beyond gender, race, sexual orientation, culture, nation, or religion. God may be out there, but we will miss God altogether if we never see the presence of God within. We choose to live in heaven or hell right here, right now on planet earth. And to whichever we reach out our hand, we will receive. “I place before you life or death”, love or evil, joy or sorrow, equality or inequality. The real question is why are we choosing to live in hell when we could be living in heaven.

    • (Anne)
      Submitted on 2013/08/08 at 8:02 pm
      Now we are on the brink of turning the entire Pacific Ocean into a radioactive dead zone killing all life that has a divine right to exist within it, and eventually killing off our human species as nuclear radiation moves up the food chain causing cancer, mutations, and disease all along the way. In an Physics for non-majors class years ago, we learned that a key component for the existence of extraterrestrials was the love and wisdom that would be essential for a civilization to have chosen to NOT destroy their own species or life on their planet through the use of nuclear power when they didn’t have the knowledge or ability to safely contain it. They must have chosen love and wisdom over monetary riches, power, or technology. Or do we still believe, despite enormous evidence to the contrary, that human beings are not just the only, but the oldest, the most loving, and also wisest beings in our vast universe? Maybe extraterrestrials COULD help us if we asked – if enough of us asked – presuming that we could see the divine within ourselves and one another, and also present in beings in our outer universe who just might be able AND happy to help us if we could see them as friends and not enemies. Our whole world and the entire universe changes when we change our perceptions of ourselves, one another, all life on our planet, and new possibilities. Our vision IS our choice. And, we will receive our choice.

    • (Bobby1)
      Submitted on 2013/08/08 at 9:40 pm | In reply to Anne.
      Welcome, Anne. I wouldn’t count on extraterrestrials helping us… they wouldn’t want our plagues to spread to their planets too. They are probably content watching us kill ourselves.

      When man destroys the natural world, he is destroying himself. I don’t mean this just as blowback from nature (which is inevitable), but he does violence to own soul by doing it. The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.

      • (Anne)
        Submitted on 2013/08/09 at 4:42 am
        Whether we count on extraterrestrials hearing our plea for help or not; it will be our choice. We can imagine that we are alone and helpless in our vast universe or not; this too is a choice. We can imagine extraterrestrials are indifferent and callous, or loving and caring beings. Even though it was freely given to us, we can destroy all life on our planet. We can choose to kill ourselves, one another, and all other life forms – for money and fortune, political or military power, or just sheer ill will and lack of compassion. We create the world we live in, just as we create our human civilization. We can create war or peace, love or evil, joy or sorrow, life or death, heaven or hell. The earth is not just the Lord’s; it is ours too. We can choose to throw the earth and everything in it away or not. Even the Lord cannot choose for us. We choose who we are, who we become, and the world we inhabit. The question remains, why are we choosing to create hell on earth when we could be living in heaven, right here right now on planet earth?

  3. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/11 at 1:11 pm
    THE problem is misunderstanding money as true wealth. Money cannot save any of us regardless of how much of it we have or don’t have. It’s almost irrelevant except in what it can and does take away. Focusing on industries that “make money” for anyone is just placing blinders on the human psyche. Money will fail the rich as well as the poor. Money robs humanity of a vision of where we are even headed, and short-circuits our arrival at a desirable destination. All of human civilization and all life on our planet would be better off without money. We would come to understanding much sooner what truly matters: strong family and community connections, a healthy natural environment, self-sustaining local towns and communities, learning from natural life forms, and recognizing that God exists within all human beings regardless of gender, race, culture, nation, or religion, and is present in all life forms and creatures. As long as we focus on “making money” we will not just lose sight of what truly matters, but consequently throw away and destroy what does truly matter. It will be irrelevant how much money anyone has or has made when we have destroyed our waters, soils, air, oceans, our lands, all creatures, the human species, and the best in our own humanity. Money cannot save us. It’s like following a road further and further unto death. Life moves in the opposite direction. And life, like love, is free.

    • (Anne)
      Submitted on 2013/08/11 at 1:18 pm | In reply to Anne.
      sorry, forgot sexual orientation – in sentence from above

      and recognizing that God exists within all human beings regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, culture, nation, or religion, and is present in all life forms and creatures.

    • (Bobby1)
      Submitted on 2013/08/11 at 2:30 pm | In reply to Anne.
      God fills the whole universe (Jeremiah 23:24)

      The kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it (Gospel of Thomas 113)

      The Word that spoke the universe into existence, had life in him, and this life was the light that lights every person (John 1:1-9)

      The Word became flesh (John 1:14)

      All those who received him were born of God and received the privilege to become sons of God (John 1:12)

      The Son was not sent to condemn the world, but to grant everlasting life (John 3:16-17)

      But people chose darkness, because the Light reveals their evil, and they did not want their evil deeds exposed and reproved. They have condemned themselves (John 3:19)

      Therefore, even though God is within them (pervaded by him), they remain in darkness, which does not comprehend the light (John 1:5), and they cannot see that God and his kingdom are spread out everywhere.

  4. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/11 at 7:40 pm
    Wisdom is contained uniquely and separately within two genders that God placed on earth, the yang is out of balance without the yin and vice versa. The reign of the loving father and mother is spread out over the universe, and perhaps many people do it see it now, and all people will see it soon. The creator’s loving hand is spread out everywhere, and it contains both genders, all races, all cultures and nations, all creatures, waters, soils, and air. People don’t always choose darkness; sometimes they cannot see the light that they carry within, or the light present within other people and all life forms. Many have been mislead into traveling roads that lead to darkness and death. That doesn’t mean they always will. Only faith, hope, and love can save the world. Don’t give up on people, or on the reign of God, or on the light touching the heart of all beings. “Love covers a multitude of wrongs”, which vanquishes the former darkness.

  5. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/12 at 4:05 am
    Better start asking for deliverance. Whether you believe in a God out there or not, we don’t have the knowledge to FIX the problems brought on by nuclear power, or by those who try to manipulate civilization in either underground or off-planet hellholes. (They are choosing one form of hell for themselves, and another form for the rest of humanity. Hell is hell. And, the worst part is carrying the hell of one’s thoughts and actions in one’s consciousness. They need deliverance from themselves most of all).

    Our loving ancestors exist. Imagine and believe in their resurrection for a long time now on a distant planet that did not suppress breakthrough, free energy technologies that could have brought on an enlightened era, and still can. Perhaps, not all extraterrestrials will turn out to be completely alien to us. God ALWAYS existed within the human heart, and all natural life forms on our good earth, and still does. Plus, we have many old friends and relatives in the vast universe that were free to choose and create heaven once they left this earth. Will they interfere in our world unless we ask for their benevolent assistance? God works the same way. “Ask, and you will receive.” Only faith, hope, and love can save us. Believe.

  6. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/12 at 9:37 am

    “Just prepare for the worst and may God be by your side giving you strength to rebuild this world like how He intended it to be: FREE”.

    Some rephrased from The Breakaway Civilization
    Just prepare for the best, and may God be by your side giving you strength to rebuild this world in the way the Creator intended it to be – free, AND in balance between the yin and yang of gender energies (skewed to excessive yang energy for the entire history of humanity), and in harmony with the entire natural world. The people of Japan and probably CA and elsewhere need assistance both spiritually and physically now. In prayer ask for long-withheld cures for disease including cancer, radiation poisoning etc. Medical cures are also free. It may be that the ocean waters and life in Pacific and Gulf of Mexico can only be restored from above. We really do need help from a higher being and/or beings now. Or, perhaps we will find that the former “things have passed away”. Only love can “cover a multitude of wrongs”. Heaven is, and always will be, still a choice. It is time – for the people of Japan and all other peoples, creatures, soils, waters, and air – that is running out.

  7. (Bobby1)
    Submitted on 2013/08/12 at 11:31 am | In reply to Anne.
    I moved these comments to General Discussion.

    While I agree with the “realized eschatology” which you talk about, which is in substantial agreement with certain forms of Eastern religion, salvation is quite another thing. This article is the simplest explanation I have found. Heaven is not a choice, even though we are swimming in it. It comes from experiencing the life, death and resurrection of Christ, which is an act of grace.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_mysticism

  8. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/13 at 6:07 am
    Christ’s death was only made significant by his life. Focus on death is misleading in the sense that only our lives give nobility and grace to our death. Christ’s resurrection was a sign – that a life lived with love, compassion, and peace toward all would rise again and live-on beyond death.
    However, many are “saved” that didn’t follow Christ, even though Jesus laid a worthy path to follow. Peace, love, and goodwill are all that is needed to arrive at the new heaven and new earth. When we choose to extend peace, love, and goodwill toward all beings and creatures, we choose heaven – a heaven that can be lived in the present and in a future incarnation. This may not always be easy if we are mistreated. The greatest people on earth or in heaven are those that continue to extend peace, love, and goodwill despite all – they didn’t let the meanness of the world make them mean; they choose to be gracious instead. They treasured peace, love, and goodwill in their hearts, and extended it within their circle of influence, until the very end.

    • (Bobby1)
      Submitted on 2013/08/13 at 7:21 am | In reply to Anne.
      Christ abolished death through his death. Many people who see that Fukushima is threatening death on a massive scale, are interested in overcoming death. This was accomplished on a cross in Calvary, where those who believed on him received his eternal life from the outflowing of his precious blood.

  9. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/13 at 10:38 am
    John 10:16
    “And I have other sheep which are not of this field: I will be their guide in the same way, and they will give ear to my voice, so there will be one flock and one keeper”.

    Love is a universal language which is heard by all who hear and recognize the voice of love speaking, and they will follow. It will not matter by what name love is calling; Jesus, himself, was well aware of this. Those who love will hear and follow the voice of love. There will be plenty of people from ALL religious backgrounds, nations, cultures, races, heterosexual and homosexual orientations, and members of both genders who will hear the voice of love and peace calling. As a hugh crowd they will follow that voice right into the open doors of a long-sought-after compassionate heaven where goodwill and peace toward ALL will reign. And, all of creation will rejoice for the divine will be finally recognized and cherished in all creatures, waters, soils, and air! God exists within all peoples, and all of creation.

  10. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/13 at 12:33 pm
    Added a few of the nations by name – the six nations

    And, all of creation will rejoice for the divine will be finally recognized and cherished in all six nations: animals, birds, fish, plants, insects, and human beings,
    also waters, soils, air, stars, planets, moons, galaxies, the entire universe.
    God exists within all peoples, and all of creation.

  11. (Anne)
    Submitted on 2013/08/14 at 6:38 am | In reply to Anne.
    Our ascension to the new heaven and new earth is predicated by understanding what has been
    “always present.
    Footfalls echo in the memory
    Down the passage which we did not take
    Towards the door we never opened
    Into the rose-garden …
    We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.”

    A story best told by one who sees.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u88mfQIhTig

    • (Anne)
      Submitted on 2013/09/01 at 11:25 am
      The spirit precedes the material, physical world that we inhabit. If you want to change the situation on our dying planet today including Fukushima, Japan, and the rest of the imperiled world, change the spirituality. Because the spirit world is real. We can’t manifest continued life through destruction means. Until we stop the gross disregard and disrespect for life, all life, including all human beings, we create suffering and death. We are one. Until we come to this understanding, it will be folly to attempt to FIX the problems we have created on the physical level of being. Walk away, all of humanity walk away, from all destructive endeavors, regardless of how much money they make. The money is already dust when you are hoping to survive on a dying planet. Begin to embrace and treasure peace, goodwill, and compassion for all humanity regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, nation, or religion or continue to live in hell. We are choosing the reality of the world we live in. Change the spiritual perceptions of humanity, and we have a prayer of saving ourselves and our planet.

        • (Anne)
          Submitted on 2013/09/04 at 12:40 pm | In reply to Bobby1.
          Bobby,
          Christ is a consciousness born of compassion, goodwill, and peace. The birth of Jesus was announced to the shepherds as “Peace on earth; goodwill to all humanity.” Peace, goodwill, and compassion are universals that ALL people of peace, goodwill, and compassion know and understand, and abide by – in our world today some are Christians, some are Buddhists, some are Muslims, some are Quakers, some have no religious affiliation, but ALL choose to extend compassion, goodwill, and peace toward all. Violence, force, and superiority views have no place in compassion, goodwill, and peace. Whether this violence and force stems from gender, racial, sexual orientation, cultural/religious, or class superiority, believing that I am better, entitled, and more deserved than others is not part of peace, goodwill, and compassionate love. We choose to love by recognizing the sacred in all life including all human beings. Christ consciousness extends to include ALL people of compassion, peace, and goodwill. And, ALL things are possible for those who love.

          • Anne on September 8, 2013 at 8:12 pm said: Edit
            My faith is in love. The answers could all be right here. We could be the ones standing in the way of a new earth. The “someones” we may be looking for could be transformed human beings, living for life for the first time.

            • Bobby1 on September 8, 2013 at 9:32 pm said: Edit
              Thanks Anne. I’m looking for this heaven and earth to pass away and a new heaven and earth to appear. Soon.

              • Amassing criminal charges and jail sentences etc etc for global, international criminals is just prolonging the agony for all of us. Money has corrupted all forms of livelihood, and should just be soon and eventually abolished. Allow these criminals other, more positive, means to make amends to the world. We need to rescue the entire planet, and clinging to justice without the means for people to become someone new will not help imo. Give people outlets to correct wrongs in positive ways. But, get rid of money altogether, in due time but soon. It is killing all human beings, and all life forms on our planet, and has corrupted human civilization to the maximum.

                Start with all things that can be free, should be free – energy, communities growing their own food, self-sustainable housing, etc. Let criminals start by having them bulldoze Detroit, and rebuild the first completely sustainable city growing it’s own food, and rebuilding the city to sustain itself w the local people empowered to take their lives into their own hands – learning to grow their own food, and raising their own farm animals in humane and loving ways that connect people to nature and natural processes. We have to forgive, but we don’t need everyone’s wrongdoings broadcasted worldwide etc. Let the world have some peace. Let peace begin.

                Most of the people in the world can’t even handle knowing what has gone on, nor do they want to know. They just want a new and better earth. Spare the people knowing all these unholy actions and crimes at every level. Let criminals turn themselves in, and negotiate their service to humanity with real service vs. useless prison terms that just make people worse than better. Hold people accountable in more beneficial ways that can truly repair the hearts of criminals and the entire world. Let them use their fortunes, ingenuity, and physical strength to remake a new earth, and more enlightened, loving, and humane humanity. Warn the people and local communities now, and start empowering people with free energy, the means to grown their own organic food, fruit and nut trees, and raise their own farm animals in humane conditions. Money only leads to addiction and, finally, death – death of the soul, and death to life. We don’t need money. We need food, clothing, shelter, and energy. But more importantly, we need one another, goodwill, peace, and compassion toward all peoples regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, culture/religion, and social class. WE are who we need.

  12. (TechDud)
    Submitted on 2013/08/20 at 3:26 am | In reply to stilljillofark.
    “In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” jn14:2

    Also, I love reading The Song of Solomon when any of our loved ones pass on, as it is a love story and not as heady.
    It’s a wonderful spiritual “fire-starter”, and truly non-polluting!

    Now i hope you can find a way out of the elements and build your strength up. That is my prayer. Jill of Arc de triomphe! I hope you are strengthened enough give ‘em verbal hell, too.

  13. (Bobby1)
    Submitted on 2013/08/22 at 10:12 am | In reply to TechDud.
    The Song of Solomon, called in the Vulgate and Septuagint, “The Song of Songs,” from the opening words. This title denotes its superior excellence, according to the Hebrew idiom; so holy of holies, equivalent to “most holy” (Ex 29:37); the heaven of heavens, equivalent to the highest heavens (De 10:14).

    http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/songs/1.htm

    “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD’S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.” Deuteronomy 10:14

    • (TechDud)
      Submitted on 2013/08/22 at 3:38 am | In reply to stilljillofark.
      I wanted to read to you a little, seven lines each day if you like, in faith that it promotes some healing and strength from our Father.

      (Normally for Passover)

      The Song of Solomon

      1 The song of songs, which is Solomon’s.
      Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
      Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
      Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
      5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
      Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother’s children were angry with me: they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
      7 Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth, where thou feedest, where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon: for why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?

    • (TechDud)
      Submitted on 2013/08/23 at 2:27 am | In reply to TechDud.
      Thank’s Bobby. That sure is some good info.

      (King Solomon speaking)
      8. If thou know not, O thou fairest among women, go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock, and feed thy kids beside the shepherd’s tables.
      I have compared thee, O my love, to a company of horses in Pharaoh’s chariots.
      Thy cheeks are comely with rows of studs of silver.
      While the king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell therof.
      A bundle of myrrh is my wellbeloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
      My beloved is unto me as a cluster of camphire in the vineyards of Engedi.
      Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves eyes.
      Behold, thou art fair, my beloved, yea, pleasant: also our bed is green.
      The beams of our house are cedar, and our rafters of fir.

    • (TechDud)
      Submitted on 2013/08/28 at 10:41 pm | In reply to stilljillofark.
      Have not forgotten you. Am not perfect; far from it.
      For you, my sister, i sincerely apologize for my delay.
      May you gain strength in Jesus name.

      2:1 I AM the rose of Sharon and the lily of the valleys.
      As the lily among thorns, so is my love among the daughters.
      As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.
      He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love.
      Stay me with flagons, comfort me with apples: for I am sick of love.
      His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me.
      I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till he please.

    • (TechDud)
      Submitted on 2013/09/02 at 10:47 pm | In reply to stilljillofark.
      2:8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.
      My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.
      My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
      For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;
      The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;
      The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
      O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
      Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.
      My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies.
      Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether.

    • (TechDud)
      Submitted on 2013/09/04 at 2:21 am | In reply to stilljillofark.
      3 By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.
      I will rise now, and go about the city in the streets, and in the broad ways I will seek him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.
      The watchmen that go about the city found me: to whom I said, Saw ye him whom my soul loveth?
      It was but a little that I passed from them, but I found him whom my soul loveth: I held him, and would not let him go, until I had brought him into my mother’s house, and into the chamber of her that conceived me.
      I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till he please.

    • TechDud on September 5, 2013 at 11:53 pm said: Edit
      3:6 Who is this that cometh out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke, perfuned with myrrh and frankincense, with all powders of the merchant?
      Behold his bed, which is Solomon’s; threescore valiant men are about it, of the valiant of Israel.
      They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night.
      King Solomon made himself a chariot of the wood of Lebanon.
      He made the pillars therof of silver, the bottom therof of gold, the covering of it of purple, the midst therof being paved with love, for the daughters of Jerusalem.
      Go forth, O ye daughters of Zion and behold king Solomon with the crown wherewith his mother crowned him in the day of his espousals, and in the day of the gladness of his heart.

    • TechDud on September 8, 2013 at 4:28 pm said: Edit
      4 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves’ eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
      Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.
      Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of pomegranate within thy locks.
      Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men.
      Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.
      Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, I will get me to the mountain of myrrh, and to the hill of frankincense.
      Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.

    • TechDud on September 10, 2013 at 2:50 am said: Edit
      4:8 Come with me from Lebanon, my spouse, with me from Lebanon: look from the top of Shenir and Hermon, from the lion’s dens, from the mountains of the leopards.
      Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck.
      How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!
      Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.
      A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
      Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates, with pleasant fruits; camphire, with spikenard,
      Spikenard and saffron; calamus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense; myrrh and aloes, with all the chief spices:
      A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.
      Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.

      • Bobby1 on September 10, 2013 at 10:52 am said: Edit
        2 Corinthians 14-16 “Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?”

  14. TechDud on September 14, 2013 at 2:20 am said: Edit
    For some that are about to pass on, the sweet savor of Father’s word can be enough to spare them from the wrong side of the gulf.
    Those that have the “Key of David” should be sufficient, neh?
    The churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught that key.

    I think i have made the Song of Solomon more difficult to follow by not notating whom it is that is speaking!
    I have copied word-for-word from KJ, yet that may only provide a starting point.

    For a while now, i wondered “where is the shepherd boy mentioned?”
    That is whom it is that the little Shulamite girl is really in love with, not King Solomon.
    Whom is that “Shepherd” symbolic of? I think you know.
    There’s a wedding coming. We all need to fill our lamps with oil (truth) before that door closes.

    • TechDud on September 14, 2013 at 2:22 am said: Edit
      whoops!
      It’s faith, repentance and that sweet savor of Father’s Word that get’s it done.
      My mistake.

    • TechDud on September 14, 2013 at 2:28 am said: Edit
      Quote: “Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.”

      Those little foxes are the Kinites, those whom Smyrna & Philadelphia warned of, those sons of Cain and thereby the devil. Was it simply an apple that Adam and Eve partook of, or were they BOTH “wholly seduced”?

    • Bobby1 on September 14, 2013 at 10:16 am said: Edit
      The love of Christ, which passeth all understanding, is a passion that makes the greatest possible sexual ecstasy on earth seem like a dim shadow by comparison.

      This love affects the whole planet… its pleasant odor furthers eternal life for some, and everlasting death for others… depending on which side they are on.

    • Bobby1 on September 14, 2013 at 1:42 pm said: Edit
      “The point at issue between “means” and “antimeans” Baptists is not as to whether men may be brought to repent and believe THROUGH the preached word,-they often are; indeed that is one of the great purposes for which the gospel was to be preached. Nor do we deny that God may and sometimes does regenerate a sinner WHILE the preacher is preaching. He may as easily do so as when the sinner is in his home, in the shop, or following the plow. But the exact issue before us is this- Does God REGENERATE or make alive the dead sinner THROUGH the ministry and the preached word?

      And to this question, Primitive Baptists have very emphatically answered, NO.”

      http://www.primitivebaptist.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=789&Itemid=36

      It is for this reason that I have given up on christianityite religion completely. The fact that God gives life to sinners suddenly, through his own will, separate from any human means, puts a wall between what I have found, and millions of preachers and notional christians. It just ends up offending everybody.

    • Bobby1 on September 14, 2013 at 3:16 pm said: Edit
      I have moved the religious comments to GD.

      Thinking of making a new blog for religion/spirituality. The problem is lack of time, energy and constantly dealing with radiation symptoms.

      Satan has been trying to get rid of me for 20 years. Now he’s trying to do it with radiation.

  15. The spiritual world is not passive. We are active participants in the world we inhabit whether we are aware, conscious and responsible, or whether we are unaware, unconscious, and irresponsible for the world we inhabit. The Garden of Eden story mythologies the rise or awareness of the birth of consciousness for the human species – that we are able to consciously choose good or ill will toward our own self or extend our good or ill will toward others began when we became conscious in the Garden of Eden. (We saw the nakedness of consciousness. There is nowhere to hide when one is conscious. Only unconsciousness is blind. Only unconsciousness is in denial of our personal and collective responsibility for the world we inhabit). We will, however, live with the consequences of our intentions and behavioral choices at the individual and societal levels. Without conscious awareness of our spiritual choices, humanity feels helpless against the forces of good or evil. But, good and evil are choices that we consciously reach for in our thoughts and intentions, and act upon in our behaviors. We are the masters of whether we live in a world governed by goodwill or ill will toward our own selves, our fellow human beings, all creatures, and all of creation. And, we have been choosing ill will, cruelty, and violence since the beginning of consciousness in the Garden of Eden.

    Imagining and believing that I am intrinsically better or more deserving than others whether through gender, racial, sexual orientation, culture/religion, or social/monetary class is choosing to extend ill will upon those I perceive as less deserving. (We even choose whether we are superior to all creation). However, It is a choice, not a fixed reality. We create reality through good will or ill will, compassion or cold-heartedness, violence or peace. We choose violence or peace through our thoughts and intentions in the same way we choose good and ill will, and through what we feed our psyches. Whether we feed on violence or peace within our own hearts and thoughts, we will live out and materialize our internal world in our external reality. Creating and watching violent or peace-filled media will affect who we become as individuals and as a civilization. The spirit world reflects OUR choices. It does not choose for us. We are free to create whatever world we desire.

    When enough of humanity is consciously aware and taking responsibility for choosing goodwill, compassion, and peace in our thoughts and behaviors, we will know peace, harmony, and true prosperity as a human civilization, not before. Goodness and peace cannot happen without our active participation and responsible and conscious awareness. We create who we are every minute, hour, and day of our lives whether aware or unaware, conscious or unconscious, responsible or irresponsible.

    We could choose goodness and peace for ourselves, all our fellow human beings, all creatures, and all of creation. It is our choice just as it was in the Garden of Eden. We chose equality or inequity, good or evil, violence or peace as individuals and as a humanity. We create who we become as a civilization. We could chose greatness rather than vileness, goodness rather than evil, cooperation rather than competition, compassion rather than cruelty, equality rather than inequality, peace rather than violence, freedom rather than imprisonment or enslavement. We can choose to be free of the imprisonment and enslavement of vices or not. We create humanity to be what we choose, and thus it has always been since the very beginning in the Garden of Eden. We can choose to keep devolving into increasing ill will, violence, and cruelty. Or, we could become – for the first time since the Garden of Eden – a civilization that finally began to choose the goodness and freedom of peace and compassion.

    It was, and still is our choice.

    • We are not naturally free. We are slaves. We are in bondage to sin and man’s downfall in Adam. Christ is the truth, and the truth makes you free.

      The world we are free to create in our own desire is corrupt, because WE are corrupt. Hence Fukushimas and wars, etc.

      Christ is the one and only refuge in a dying world.

      • We are not anymore naturally corrupt than any other part of creation is corrupt. Are birds that fill the sky with wonder and song corrupt? Or magical fish that grace our oceans; are they corrupt? Or, are magnificence tigers or great whales corrupt? How about all the precious waters that give life, hold memory, and cover our glorious blue planet?

        Humanity is only a slave to fear, scarcity, and superiority views, but these are ALL choices. We could just as easily choose trust, abundance, and equality with all our fellow human beings, and all life forms. We choose war, and nuclear power even when it is deadly b/c we are slaves to violence and superiority, and to the money and ill-gotten gain they provide. But, violence, superiority, money and riches are all lies. They do not provide respect and dignity to anyone, neither perpetrators or victims, and they have no part in our true wealth. They will fail everyone, both rich and poor, the powerful and weak. They rob humanity, and take from all individual and collective true wealth.

        We choose to corrupt our bodies and souls and extend this same abusive ill will onto our fellow human beings and into the whole world w force and violence. But, we are just as free to choose peace and harmony, and keep the purity of our souls and bodies. We choose to look down on our fellow human beings. But, we could just as readily look up to one another, and see the sacredness in all human beings and all creation. And, with our gaze that seeks to see the best in others, bring it forth.

        No force in the entire universe has the power to keep us slaves to corruption except our choosing to be enslaved by beliefs that breed fear, scarcity, and superiority views. Christ cannot choose for us. WE choose who we want to be as individuals and as a humanity. Enlightened ancestors including Christ may help us to bring our good intentions to manifest if we ask for their help, but our will MUST be present to manifest either a world of life and peace, or one of suffering and death. We will life or death, suffering or joy, peace or coercion, just as we will peace and harmony, cooperation and respect. We will abundant life or suffering and death, scarcity or abundance, fear or trust.

        We still have time to choose to become a new human civilization, an enlightened humanity, a human species that wins their own honor in the end. We are the masters of our own destiny as a humanity. Nothing is fated. We forge or break the bondage of enslavement to disrespect, fear, and belief in scarcity, just as we are free to forge bonds of respect, trust, and belief in the abundance of the universe. We choose. We are free whether we know it or not. We can choose to become new, any moment of any day, anyone or all of us can finally choose to take off the blinders that keep us in the dark, and truly SEE our own light and sacredness, not just our worst, most corrupted selves.

        We could turn ourselves around if we want to become new. We can become a new civilization. We are naturally beautiful and sacred, or horribly awful and corrupt. We choose. And, we will SEE our choice right before our very eyes.

        • Have you not seen the violence in nature, the magnificent tiger, and fish, the mutilate and destroy one another? Now I believe this was all due to man’s fall into sin at the beginning of time. Now I am possibly poorly educated compared to you on scripture, which has been fooled around with by sinful man, however, I do not believe that God originally intended animals to tear each other limb for limb and feed on one another, yet that is what happens every day and has for thousands of years. It is a violent and scary world, for both prey animals and us. This world is a terror-fest. Anne, I love your thoughts and ideas, and many make perfect sense, but, they are simply not aligning with reality at this juncture in the space/time continuum as it appears in truth. There are things that are fated, it is prophesied about in the scriptures. Millions of ppl will NOT turn from their own selfish desires so what we want as individuals, while perhaps serving us and our families temporarily may be a good thing, will not change what scripture has clearly described. I see what you are speaking of as the NEW heaven and the NEW earth. I eagerly look fwd to this as Bobby well knows, and also Jill. thank you for your positive thoughts though seriously!

          • Human consciousness, which separates humanity from the animal kingdom, is mythologized in the story of the Garden of Eden. Knowledge of good and evil is not a tragedy. It was, and still is, the only way for human civilization to rise above the animal world. Humanity did not “fall” into sin, but consciousness “arose” which gave birth to the understanding of conscience, which makes us aware of behavior being morally right or wrong.

            Prophecies are guesses, nothing more. They can be right or wrong, and portend good or bad happenings. But, believing in them is NO accident. We are choosing to believe in prophecies of doom and gloom or not. We are active participants in our world, and the ending for humanity is OUR choice. We can choose to believe that everyone and everything is destroyed, but it IS a choice. Words do not make us who we are. We choose to believe in their power over us. Or, not.

            We could just as well imagine a new and better ending for ourselves than everyone and everything goes down in one big ball of hell fire. Ask a child if they would like to hear a story with a sad beginning and a sad ending. Even a child knows this is not a story that they care to hear. Why?

            WE are alive to choose our own ending for humanity. Believing that “millions of ppl will NOT turn from their own selfish desires” is a choice. We could just as well believe that millions of people will turn in a new direction.

            We create the world we inhabit by our beliefs, intentions, and desires. Believe in the best in and for humanity, because it WILL be required in order to achieve it.

            Believe in the best for Dunia’s sake. She deserves a new beginning and ending to the story of humanity. Happy birthday, Dunia!

            • Honestly I was born believing everything was wonderful and then was brow beat nearly to death by everyone around me, CONTINUED to believe in good and wonderment as I watched, well Bobby and I watched my children and us both be tortured mercilessly as we both still continued to believe everything was going to work out great. It didn’t. Positive thinking and actions and prayer are always in good order but they don’t always ‘create’ in the physical world what is going on in our hearts and minds, that’s just how it is. Bobby and I walked around in utter shock for several years as our positive thoughts and prayers just seemed to cause a reign of terror over our heads. We are still recovering! My daughter now believes the past doesn’t exist. Well her credit getting ruined is just that, the past existing here in the present. case in point.

              • Well, continue to hunker down in terror and negativity then, or look up! I have no idea where deliverance is coming from, but it is not coming from clinging to negativity and belief in the triumph of evil over all living people and all life. If humanity continues to “see” evil in the “spirit of MAN”, it will continue to live with it. Practically everything humanity has learned throughout it’s entire history is what not to do. Humanity is a colossal failure, and there are real reasons for this.

                However, say something once, why say it again. I’ve already said it repeatedly. I’ll bow out now, and leave you with your vision of evil triumphing.

                It IS your choice after all.

                  • Evil is destroyed by the choices of each and everyone of us make while we live. Our deaths will never outshine what we brought to living triumphant lives. Christ’s death is only made significant by the miracles and life lessons he taught while he was alive. We could each die thousands of deaths, but it is only the noteworthy lives we live that we can pass onto others. Christ’s real triumph was his life. His death would have passed into obscurity without a victorious
                    life.

                  • Christ actually did the things you are talking about. But he didn’t just decide to defeat Satan and evil. He had to suffer. It was a great personal cost.

                    Your philosophy ignores the cost, the difficulty, the things you have to give up. You are saying you can be a soldier without the risk of getting shot, without the hunger, the filth in the foxholes, without the aspiration and honor of self-sacrifice.

                • you are wildly offensive.
                  You completely twisted everything I have said. You just basically told me it was MY fault that my children were attacked by others, terrorized in fact because I simply didn’t have the ‘right ‘ frame of mind, like you, the HOLY one. I clearly stated that we DID have the correct frame of mind and continued in shock at the evil that was abounding around us. How sickening. and very unkind with absolutely NO love whatsoever. It’s the ol ‘blame the victim’ routine. Fabulous, please don’t ever work for a rape crisis hotline or any other such counseling for abused and terrorized people, you will likely cause some suicides….your attitude towards me is disgusting.

                • on second thought Anne, cram it. i’m done being told if only I believed in fairy tales that my children would no longer suffer. How cruel is that. Tell that to all the parents out there whose kids are dying of horrible diseases and so forth. Or children whose parents are terribly ill, oh kiddies if only you THOUGHT happy thoughts this wouldn’t be happening. Asshole, sorry Bobby but it’s the truth, thank you Bobby for always holding back your rage in a way apparently I cannot, I have simply not ‘evolved’ thusfar. guess I need a few thousand more times to be reincarnated or something like that..

  16. and can I just say HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUNIA!!!! BOBBY’s AND MY PRECIOUS GRANDDAUGHTER MADE IT TO ONE YEAR OLD today with all her faculties and fingers and toes even tho she was conceived and cooked on the California west coast after Fuku. Thank you Dear DEAR LORD. I wish I could post a photo but can’t for the life of me figure out how.

  17. Changing the world will require more than positive thinking, and I’ve already said what it will require – letting go of belief in fear, scarcity, and superiority views which drive human beings to extreme abuse of others and the resources of the planet. I never said there isn’t a cost. All enlightenment involves individual, and collective, suffering in order to overcome evils.

    • Compassion. I start with compassion.
      To envision walking a mile in another’s shoes, so to speak.
      Picture the pain they endure and not relay simply sympathy, yet empathize and remember.
      For instance, i had no idea that your children were attacked. Don’t know how to even begin to envision what that must have been like to suffer through, nor the rage that must have inspired. Lacking the insight to truly understand, i gather that is how Father feels when any of His children suffer as often occurs in this horribly corrupted and fallen world of mammon. He has feelings too, as our closest living relative, as i have no doubt many true parents do.
      It truly is paradoxical, seeing so much beauty and promise in the natural world in the grand splendor of creation around us, only to watch it constantly being torn down and thrown asunder in greed & ignorance. I hate this place, this prison planet. Often elated when i am alone in the woods, and feel little fear of the black bear & cougar around me (picking appropriate seasons). Sometimes i can feel what i might be like to be a bear, or elk, or owl. Yet no matter how far i get away, i cannot seem to escape the loud booming (what up wit dat?), or distant vehicles howling. I long to hear the sound of silence on a calm sunny day, the constant cacophony of the rain, or the howling rage of the wind.
      Cursed be the man that ties one rooftop to another. Crowded cities seem like an abomination to me. I cannot remember where this paraphrased entry can be found in KJ. Can somebody help please?

      • “It truly is paradoxical, seeing so much beauty and promise in the natural world in the grand splendor of creation around us, only to watch it constantly being torn down and thrown asunder in greed & ignorance.”

        I remember as a child, even as a teenager, the IMMENSE beauty of the natural world, every time I got way from the city… even in a little patch of woods in the town where I grew up.

        It is being torn down and replaced with pollution & ugliness. Our civilization is destitute of all values that make life worth living. It is a fraud, it is hypocrisy.

        • what you just said is one of the big things that made us fit as genuine friends, and how Bubba came to be. For that I am thankful. I am glad someone out there gets it. We have our handful of ppl Bobby, that get what you just said. We are real lucky for that actually despite all the stuff and crap that was thrown our way. Our son is the coolest thing that ever came into my life after Jesus of course. He has taught me as much or more about that deep stuff than you have. No surprise really. ….

          • Back in the day, I went to the house of that Mennonite guy from #cl for Sunday worship. It was way way out in the cornfields of Indiana, on a dirt road. I remember the absolute silence, there was no wind or anything, or birds or insects even. What an amazing thing.

    • (Anne)

      The miracles of Christ while he was alive, including his choice to remain on the cross when he had attained the power to physically come down from it or just disappear, were his greatest triumphs. Christ defeated fear, scarcity, and superior views while he was living and while he was dying. He was only able to cure the sick, manifest food, and raise the dead because he trained in tapping God’s universal abundance which requires absolute trust in God, and the humility to know that the spark of the divine is present in others as well. We permit or limit the entrance of God, and God’s power, into our hearts and psyches. If we cave into fear and scarcity, believe in competing with others rather than cooperating, if we create enough of a gap between rich and poor, the entitled and disenfranchised, we will lose not just all natural life and all of creation, but the soul of human civilization as well. And, we will lose it before our very eyes, not in some hell off planet in the next world.

      Only trusting in the abundance of the universe as an entire unified and humble human civilization which understands that God exists within rather than “out there” will bring us continued life and joy on planet earth. Jesus could only know God, whom he saw as a Father, because he recognized God within himself first. When Jesus said that we could do all the things he did and more, he meant that God is present within, that heaven is available now in the present, that we can create miracles or misery. We create our own personal heavens or hells right here, and extend them outward. As long as we place money before life and over the lives of other human beings, we will create suffering and death for ourselves, one another, and all life forms on planet earth. Life like love is free. We are only free when we value life more than money, riches, wealth, possessions, force, and power. We choose to be enslaved to vice or not. We are not naturally enslaved. We choose it. And, Christ cannot and will not choose for us; Christ can only point the way. WE make humanity what it is. We can rescue ourselves from ourselves. But it won’t happen when we surrender to fear, scarcity, and belief in false notions of superiority. Miracles only arise from trust, abundance, and understanding that God, and God’s power, exist within the human heart and psyche. And, it WILL require our choosing it. Unless as a humanity we can free our own selves from the addiction to money and possessions, we will be enslaved by them and kill all life. Our real treasures are understanding our own sacredness and the sacredness of all life. No treasure was, or ever will be, greater than knowing the God that exists within ourselves, one another, and all natural life forms on planet earth.

  18. Jeremiah 1:4 “Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
    and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
    and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    • “Jeremiah’s style corresponds to his character: he is peculiarly marked by pathos, and sympathy with the wretched; his Lamentations illustrate this; the whole series of elegies has but one object—to express sorrow for his fallen country; yet the lights and images in which he presents this are so many, that the reader, so far from feeling it monotonous, is charmed with the variety of the plaintive strains throughout.”

      http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/jeremiah/1.htm

      • At least one of the Psalms could possibly be asserted to be attributed to Jeremiah. This particular Psalm is studied in excellent depth in the following program.

        http://www.shepherdschapel.com/media/sc/10_3_2013_hi_vid.wmv

        Psalm 71:1 In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion.

        In the above quote of Jeremiah, i was responding to your post yesterday concerning the worldly system’s utter disregard for protection of the unborn as human beings, and sought to point out documentation of when life can be considered to begin in God’s Word. I don’t doubt that you know Bobby1, nor do i doubt for an instant that the ladies here know. Worldly systems? It seems that we are lead by those with minds of children, murderers and thieves, although it is likely true that not every individual member of such systems, as natural persons, have minds of children, or are murderers or are thieves.

        In addition:

        Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished […]

        … and my favorite:
        Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe [John the Baptist] leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. [Spirit]

        I thank you for allowing me the liberty to freely express this. I do appreciate that fact.

  19. How Should People of Faith – Or Atheists Who Want to Talk With Them – Think of Bank Crime?

    Preface: If you are an atheist and believe that religion is crazy, please remember that some 85% of the American population identifies itself as Christian and millions more identify themselves as Jewish. Very few Americans are atheists. (And the majority don’t trust atheists.) Therefore, knowing a few bible verses may be essential for atheists to be able to speak to people of faith.

    … Is big banking as practiced by the giant banks in harmony with Christian or traditional Jewish principles?…

    Initially, the Bible does not counsel us to ignore the breaking of laws by the the powerful.

    In fact, the Bible mentions justice over 200 times — more than just about any other topic. The Bible asks us to do justice and to stand up to ANYONE — including the rich or powerful — who do injustice or oppress the people.

    Indeed, one of the first things God asks of us is to do justice:

    He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8)

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/the-bible-and-nobel-prize-winning-economists-agree-when-the-sentence-for-a-crime-is-not-quickly-carried-out-peoples-hearts-are-filled-with-schemes-to-do-wrong.html

    • A Christian bank would lend to anybody that wants to borrow, without expecting either interest or principal back:

      Luke 6:34-35, “And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.”

      Anyone know any Christian banks?

  20. Matthew 10:26-27, “Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.”

  21. Psalm 25:16 Turn thee unto me, and have mercy upon me; for I am desolate and afflicted.

    His (David’s) own eyes were fixed upon God, but he feared that the Lord had averted his face from him in anger. Oftentimes unbelief suggests that God has turned his back upon us. If we know that we turn to God we need not fear that he will turn from us, but may boldly cry, “Turn thee unto me.” The ground of quarrel is always in ourselves, and when that is removed there is nothing to prevent our full enjoyment of communion with God. “Have mercy upon me.” Saints still must stand upon the footing of mercy; notwithstanding all their experience they cannot get beyond the publican’s prayer, “Have mercy upon me.” “For I am desolate and afflicted.” He was lonely and bowed down. Jesus was in the days of his flesh in just such a condition; none could enter into the secret depths of his sorrows, he trod the winepress alone, and hence he is able to succour in the fullest sense those who tread the solitary path.

    “Christ leads me through no darker rooms
    Than he went through before;
    He that into God’s kingdom comes,
    Must enter by this door.”

    Charles Spurgeon, “Treasury of David”

    • Psalm 22 “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

      Song Of Solomon 2:15 “Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.”

      Deuteronomy 31:6 “Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.”

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